Tuesday, April 18, 2006

Security Solution is No Longer an Option for Copts' Persecution

Last year and this year’s violent incidents in Alexandria proved the failure of the regime and government to bring justice to Egyptian Copts. Hiring an army to protect Copts in Egypt from potential attacks does not solve the issue of equal citizenship and discharging peacefully anti-Coptic sentiments caused by the government’s help to the extremist public and political figures that disseminated hatred among Muslims against Copts over the past few decades. The Egyptian official channels for the last 30 years hosted religious figures on a weekly or daily basis to instill the idea that Copts are the enemies. On Fridays, a popular weekly religious program hosted by a cleric who has no more than a primary education said that we (Muslims) should not shake hands with Copts (probably because they are disbelievers and enemies of Islam).

Yesterday, I was listening to a BBC Arabic program that was hosting Islamic Scholar Mohamed Emara. He said that Copts should stop mentioning Coptic nation or people. On the other hand, Muslims in Egypt do not stop mentioning or talking on behalf of the Islamic nation/world/peoples. His talk was full of racism and hatred. This is the ideology of so many writers who occupy huge spaces on the Egyptian official papers and press and they are propagating anti-Coptic sentiments. The government is allowing them to write hatred with freedom.

Many Egyptians regard Copts as second citizens, a spirit that did not exist before 1952. The closeness or the shadow role of the Muslim Brotherhood with the military regimes until this day helped fuming and augmenting hatred feelings against Copts. The government opened the way for them to occupy the media to marginalize Egyptian Copts as being no partners in the Egyptian society.

The lack of democracy and freedoms in Egypt further led to the marginalization and isolation of Copts. As Islamists won the popular places to speak to the Egyptians with the help of the regime (recently the parliament), their battle became a religious jihady one. Islamists’ first enemy became the non-Muslims in general. Internationally, the enemy is the western civilization, and in Egypt, Copts became the enemy to crush. Regrettably, Copts are easy target in the absence of democracy and freedoms. The centralized dictatorship ruling in Egypt denied Egyptian citizens to enjoy equal rights. The western civilization became the target through organized terrorism operation, a topic I won’t address this post.

The ideology of the 1952 coup d’etats that killed Egypt’s diversity and kicked all Egyptian citizens who were Jewish out of Egypt, denying them their wealth and money, could not get rid of the 10% Copts in Egypt easily. Jewish Egyptians who made their money under Egypt’s free economy system before 1952 were denied their rights and wealth, and some of them went to the airports fleeing to Europe in their bedtime clothes. However with Copts, the ideology used manipulated different forces to make the Copts’ lives in Egypt almost impossible. That explains why so many Egyptian Copts prefer to immigrate and that also explains who so many Copts are active abroad. This is not because they are agents as the regime tries to depict them but because injustice has a reaction. In so many cases, wounds are not easy to be healed.

The Anti-Coptic hatred speeches (in the different media outlets) and religious Friday prayers preaches, together with strict governmental control on culture, art and education, led at the end to full hatred to the Copts. The fact that the government denied Copts any influential posts in the different ministries, police and army made all Egyptians feel that they should remain marginalized because they is the way how they are treated. Over the decades, generation forgot to ask why. The instilled culture became a Coptic citizen has no word in his own country. Muslim activists who are defending Copts’ equal rights are very few and regarded by other Muslims as lunatics, to mention but few Dr. Said El Din Ibrahim, Amin Al Mahdy and Tarek Heggy.

The fact that any Muslim even if he is a door man can turn a room into a corner mosque while denying Christians to build a church except with a presidential decree sent a clear message to all Egyptians that Copts are treated as second class citizens. The government instilled this despicable culture. I want to mention a historical piece of information for those who do not believe that the 1952 regimes instilled an anti-Coptic culture. Egypt was not that centralized before 1952. Wealthy families took care of whole regions in Egypt and not as depicted by the post 1952 superficial movies that they were cruel users. Those families were Copts and Muslims. Many wealthy Coptic families lived in Upper Egypt (South of the country). It was very well known that those families as they built churches, they also built mosques. Same thing for Muslim wealthy families, they built mosques and churches. Worshipping places were not an issue. It was a service that needs to be provided like any other service according to the demand and need without thinking whether it is Christian or Islamic.

The continuous attacks on Copts in the different provinces in Egypt without fair transparent police investigations or fair trials to perpetrators led dormant negative sentiments that are evolving today into bloody violence.

The regime succeeded on turning the Coptic persecution issue into how many churches should be built when it is not a religious rights battle and making people believe it is a battle to defend Islam or Christianity. It is a political issue.

Finally, the solution in my opinion is not further security measures or the renewal of the Emergency Law next May because of the Alexandria violence. The security solution is the option of the totalitarian regimes that want to maintain their ideologies whether Islamization or communism…etc.

For a citizen, regardless of his race, color or religion or no religion, to enjoy a full-fledged citizenship with no persecution or oppression, he or she has to live under a democratic regime and not a rights granting regime whenever it deems so.

God Bless Egypt

Previously:
Sectarian Clashes Continue in Alexandria for the third day, One Muslim Dies
Muslims and Christians Clash following Churches Attacks
Good Friday Attacks on Coptic Churches in Alexandria
Disturbing News from Alexandria, Egypt
Egyptian church clash injures 12
Two Muslim Women in their Own Words about Religions in Egypt
Al-Azhar objects a Movie on Jesus, And Its Scholars criticizes ...
I am branded as a Coptic Site

26 Comments:

At 10:30 AM, Blogger Egypeter said...

God bless FFE!!!!

Why is impossible for other Egyptians to share your views? They are not radical they're simply logical, reasonable and fair!

The only hope I see in the forseeable future is when Muburak is replaced. I only hope that he's not replaced with the Muslim Brotherhood.

What happens if they come into power?? If that happens then what we are seeing today is just the beginning...just look at what that lunatic Akef said about Copts ruling Egypt. He said a Muslim from Malyasia could rule Egypt but a native Copt has no right to rule his own country!! That's the kind of sick and retarded ideology that they are successfully spreading throughout Egypt. God help Egypt!

 
At 10:33 AM, Blogger Gateway Pundit said...

Beautiful! Thanks for sharing your information with us. Living in the West your perspective is invaluable.

 
At 1:49 PM, Anonymous Hany said...

Too late for these words. If u haven't noticed yet, Egypt now has become a "hatred swamp". Thanks to our tyrants, land is prepared for Muslim Brotherhood to take over power.

This isn't a joke but the army and police are now fully penetrated by extremists and fanatics, it's just a matter of time to hear statment number one from Mahdy Akef declaring the "Islamic Republic Of Egypt".

All we can say right now, LORD have mercy on us.

 
At 2:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Freedom ,
I read you post
I read it again and again
You are speaking from the heart
You are speaking for every Copt
You are saying what every Copt in
the world wants to say
I could not add a single word

We Love Egypt..We love Egyptians
ALL EGYPTIANS

H.H. Pope Shenouda III on his return from exile (Jan.6th.1985)said :
"The Moslims of Egypt are our Flesh,Blood and Bones"
Thank You
Sam

 
At 2:56 PM, Blogger myfingerisonthebutton said...

good post, but why aren't Egyptian muslims replying? make me wonder.

 
At 10:42 PM, Blogger Bent El Neel said...

Good points FFE.
Have you seen these eye witness accounts???? (and English translation
the police was chatting and exchanging cigaretes with some not-so-peaceful demonstrators. Whatever happened to "serve and protect"??? who's going to uphold the law???

As for el 7agg Emmara; he has been spewing piles of poison on the pages of Al Akhbar about how Christianity is a corrupt faith and the Bible is a fake...that's fine, it's his opinion and it's not going to harm Christianity. But what does harm the Christians of Egypt is that people read this and think "oh well, if they're not really the people of the book the Quran is talking about, then they are kaffara and it's no big deal to hurt them"

As a result many Egyptian Muslims either don't care, don't wanna know, happy to be a spectator, or even participate.

I'm sorry for going on like this. For the first time I'm actually scared for Egypt and for Egyptians.

FFE: God Bless Egypt indeed my friend...and bless you too.

 
At 4:19 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi FFE,

Good post. As a Muslim (though I do not flaunt this, since I believe religion is personal), I also share your thoughts.

When I was growing up in the sixties, people were more tolerant and people did not ask whether you are Copt or Muslim. Unfortunately, the problem has grown because of several nutcases.
I see the solution is to promote secular rule based on justice, rule of law and tolerance with religion being a personal issue.
Egyptian in Germany

 
At 5:05 AM, Blogger Freedom for Egyptians said...

Egyptian in Germany,

As a Muslim I was lucky to grow up in a family that maintained the importance of keeping religion as personal matter. That taught me even if I met a faithless person, it is still her/his matter.

The core problem in my opinion that over the past 50 years since the military rule came over, Egyptians did not achieve anything to become part of the GLOBAL world or partners.

The dream that flourished with the help of the military regimes, Muslim Brotherhood and the petro dollars that financed extremist Islamic movements and ignorant Islamic scholars, was the DREAM OF THE ISLAMIC EMPIRE.

Every person stands as an obstcale is an enemy. Egyptian Copts became enemies because they are simply Christians. Westerners with their power became an enemy.

Islamists do not believe in democracy, freedoms, diversity, secularism, free economy (our only card for partnership). Regrettably, we started to pay heavy prices. Egyptians started to kill each other.

 
At 1:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi FFE,

Fully understand and agree with you completely. I am sure there that people like you would make the difference.

Egyptian in Germany

 
At 11:36 PM, Blogger Sara said...

free

islam is an approach of democracy , but most of the islamist is not doing with islam....islam didn't say to fight christians although it told muslims to marry and deal with christians and jew too...

our prophet mohamed asked us to take care of egyptian coptics in a special case and he said that copts will be with muslims in egypts in a helpful and supportive way....and our history showed that in a clear positive way....that is a fact we both know it....

BTW ..it is in al hadith but no one want to mention it because someone want the hate to be existed

nowadays and since 52 the egyptian society are splitting between muslim nation ,brotherhood, copts under the lead of the church and the goverment(with businessmen)....

that is not a good life and that will lead for nothing but more poverty and backwardness....

muslims and copts should rejoin their life together as it used to be to put aside the relegion issue...

that relegion fight arraised because of the poveraty and persecution that all the egyptians live in since 52.....

copts went to church,,,muslims went to mosques....

some priests and sheikhs are feeling that persecution and poveraty and then they put it on their speechs like what you might heard from immams and what copts see in church and we saw it in the famous play....

all that should be stopped....we should both face the government that plays with us .....

i am not with the brotherhood....they are not effective in any thing in our life...i am dreaming with civil president who aim to develop our society and lead us both muslims and copts for better way of living....

 
At 5:58 AM, Blogger Superluli said...

Wonderful Post FFE!!

you've left little for me to say.
I do not see things improving, i do not see a short term solution.

I think the worst is yet to come!

i am not a pessimist - but i just do not see a fast way out

 
At 8:22 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To SARA,
You say that Islam is an approach to DEMOCRACY .
I say that all Religions-including Islam-if became "Sharia Laws",will be in conflict and contradiction with democracy.
Religion is decreed by a "God",Can not be changed or revoked.
Democracy is Man-Made,Can change to suite time and age.
Does Islam allow a Moslim to change his/her religion? Freedom of belief is the most basic human right in democracy.
Does Islam allow a Moslim woman to fall in love and marry a non-moslim man?
Sara ,
WHICH ISLAM ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??
+ Is it the Wahabi Islam that puts you in jail for possessing a Bible in Saudi Arabia ?
+ Is it the Islam of Ibn-Taymiya ,Said Qutb and Abu Al-Ala'Al-Mawdoudi that preaches hate and killing of all Non-Moslims ??
+ Is it the Islam of Zawahiry,Zarqawy or Bin Ladin ??
+ Is it the Islam that says:"There shall be no compulsion in religion - 2:256 (Mansoukha=Abrogated)
+ Is it the Islam that says:
-"Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them and seize them,and beleager them,and lie in wait for them " 9:5
-"against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power,including steeds of war, to strike T E R R O R into the hearts of the enemies of Allah and your enemies" 8:60
- O Apostle ! Rouse the Believers to the fight !" 8:65
- O ye who believe ! Truly the Pagans are Unclean !" 9:28
- "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day,nor hold that forbidden by Allah and his APOSTLE,nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth,even if they are of the People of the Book,until they pay the JIZIA with willing SUBMISSION,and feel themselves SUBDUED" 9:29
( JIZIA=is a Poll Tax levied from those who refuse to adopt Islam paid to Moslims and followed by a slap on the back of the neck to fulfill the order of the Quran to make them feel SUBDUED - Makhtoum ala Qafah - This was stopped in Egypt by the Albanian Ruller Mohammad Ali about 200 years ago ).

Sam

 
At 6:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Sara,
you have said before that
al fatwa didn't include al luxur sttues and pyramids....it talks mainly about having status at home or drawing portraits....i'm not that convienced with the reason...but if it is a stated fact said by our prophet or supported by quran...so i have to train myself to accept because i'll lose nothing if i follow it...and i'll win if i follow it...

Quran said that Jews are Pigs and monkeys,
will you train yourself to accept that as well?

please let me know
thanks,

 
At 10:36 PM, Blogger Neill Nagib said...

A brilliant blog. You encapsulate the frustration we all feel at the failing government of Egypt. Great work.
http://neillnagib.blogspot.com

 
At 8:59 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

to anon. :7:24 PM ,
Poor Sara..She is a "Hostage"..!
She is one of the hostages who surrendred their brains and minds to the Moftys .
The Mofty decides for them and thinks for them.He drives them by remote controle.
it makes them feel better because they take no responsibility for themselves . The mofty takes the responsibility.
it gives them a false feeling of comfort but it is not healthy and very dangerous to the society as a whole .

God help Sara and all the Saras of Egypt.
Sam

 
At 11:22 AM, Blogger Egypeter said...

Just so everyone knows:

Sara is an:

Islamist/fundementalist/fanatic. Or whatever you want to call her. She goes from blog to blog spreading the same lies.

I hope she doesn't mind me quoting our conversation from Egyptian Observer's blog:
http://egyptianobserver.blogspot.com/:

-----------------------------------

Islam is not the reason for their feelings as they claim, because Islam is exist from 1400 years and Islam was stronger and exist in Egypt through the last 1400 years more than now zillions times….

By a look at their claims and our real life…you will find ridiculous claims…
One main demand is the unemployment ….which Muslims face it too….in the international statistics …we are badly in the top countries in unemployment rate….talking as copts are persecuted because of unemployment in a country 93% of the citizens are Muslims and we are in the top countries allover the world in unemployment rate….that consider a heretic claim….

You are not an Egyptian or you didn't live in Egypt to see the mosques and churches …..You must see to know how huge is all the churches "cathedral capacity" with no exception and how the 50% of the mosques are small….
And also about that complain….they had build many cathedrals in Egypt….I do not listen to copts because I have eyes that can see 3 cathedrals are building in one area here in Alexandria…this area is not more than 4Km long!!!

will tell you one last thing……by reading the entire above plus knowing that they are 7% of the Egyptian population and they are controlling the Egyptian economy with 66%......please tell me the discrimination????
Copts are the same as the examples you drove in Canada, Finland……..

to the extent that in these countries parts of the majority complain about too good a position for the minority

And that is our complain also as Muslims in Egypt that copts are better treated than Muslims to the extend….

-----------------------------------

I'll let all the readers make up their mind on the intentions of sara.

 
At 11:54 AM, Blogger Egypeter said...

And don't just take my word for it.

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/1392239.html

For anyone who may question my objectivity.

 
At 12:22 AM, Blogger Sara said...

Egypter

I read your spread comment several times….not to understand, but to see the appropriate way of commenting while reading words like: hate Christians. You are a racist, your energy for anger and hatred, fanatics, you crazy fanatic!!!!! I can't believe how IGNORANT, racist and fundamentalist ……. and some other words like fundamentalist, radicalism, absurd, You're history knowledge is DEEPLY flawed, Comment like this pissed me off, full of hatred, blatant lies, and intolerance. and I noticed a wired and strange trend!! Like here you show your TRUE COLORS! Are you a member of the Ikhwan? Are you one of those crazy women, all wrapped up, that I see on the Ikhwan's website?, I am sure you want an Egypt just for Muslims probably like your fanatical/fundamentalist friends, I AM SURE YOU WOULD LIKE THE COPTS TO BE 0% and here are some lies that you drove about your real intentions egypter: And I do not attack Islam!, I dream of an Egypt for Muslims and Copts,

 
At 12:38 AM, Blogger Sara said...

Egypter

After all of that sweet words that shows your True Color …….i knew how shallow you are Egypter…..

According to the CIA Fact Book ….when the population = 77,500,000 …copts were 7%, and it changed to 9% while the total population= 78,887,007…."very recent change…July 2006 est."

If there are 72 million Egyptians Sara that makes the Copts 13.8% and that's the number that the government gives so it could be even higher.

Sorry to upset you….and showing how much you ignorant and illiterate….
Please pay attention to the statistics and do not despise the great science of statistics…..because using a number like 72 million shows how much childish ignorant illiterate mind you are....

Here is a small lesson to know the importance of numbers boyish egypter

According to international reference. Copts percentage is 9% of 79 million that means that you are 7 millions…..
Using a poppycock number like 72 million…..put you in a bad situation….simply…79,000,000- 72,000,000= 7,000,000 ….your actual percentage…so please be accurate because numbers are meaningful…

CIA- The World Factbook--- Egypt

Also using the statistics science….Alexandria is a sample from the Egyptian society…..Alexandria is a sample for the Muslim Coptic society…..my district is a sample for that relation …my building is a sample for that relation too….

I will not scan every place in Egypt to see how good or bad copts life….I take a sample and I make my vision according to that sample….and that is the professional procedure…..

in my district we have as far as I see 2 churches…..we have 4 big mosques and good amount of zawys zawya means: part of the buildings ground floor is prepared to be a small mosque or a prayer room ….it takes as a max number 50 to 80 prayers

I live in a building owned for copts…I have copts neighbors….so when I talk about copts …I describe what I see not what I read in non-reference websites….and here is the difference between me and you….

when I talk about copts wealth ….it is a fact…..when I talk about free religion practice…it is a fact…..that what I see all around me…..

and I compare between what I see and what I hear from persecution slogans…I am an engineer….those persecutions slogans I read every where on the media are the copts givens nowadays…when I analyze those givens according to my real life and the people around me….I see those slogans the same as Free Iraq slogan……

and if those persecution slogans are considering poor copts in poor regions in Egypt……I think in that poor region churches are their least problems….because 10000% they are starving, uneducated, diseased….there all Muslim and copts are hardly live….
And I will repeat a case I heard in the TV between journalist Adel Hamouda and Mr. Fakhry Abd Al Nour about Coptic persecution in the church availability in a village where copts in this village walk 3Km to the nearest church to baby born baptism and in the same village students have to walk 10Km to the nearest school!!…so people in that village is a sample in poverty in every aspect of life "including transportation"…..

And here is the main reason for all of that…..poverty, unemployment, illiteracy …..that bring up a horrible statistics….it says that 20% of the Egyptians in Population below poverty line that means 16 millions are below the word poor and for sure the percentage of the population at poverty line will be another huge percentage " defiantly more 20% "…..

So talking about copts precaution in unemployment…means a joke…

Talking about 1% percentage for copts in political life "parliament, university professors" …..that also a joke because the Egyptians contributions in the political life is 10% which means 8 millions "who go to vote and participate"…..
That 10% means that all the layers of the society are politically persuaded….
Also it is a well known rule in university appointments…..the lecturer should be sons /daughters of the professors….and there are many distinguished Muslim didn't join the staff because of that rule too.

I can talk to you in each detail several ways and dozens of times, but that is a huge mistake because instead of talking about how Egyptians suffer and how dark is the Egyptian's future according to our economic state…..but we are dispersing to talk about Muslim Coptic relation that started from 1400 years !!!!!!

10 Muslims died with a hand of a mental man "as claimed" in bany mazar and case is closed with no action…..1000 Muslim died in Al Salam 98 and case is closed with no action ….do you see any persecution clue here????

 
At 12:54 AM, Blogger Egypeter said...

Sara:

There's no sense in me trying to convince you, it sounds like there's no reasoning with you. You've got it made up in your mind that there isn't any persecution of the Christian minority by the ever increasing fundementalist majority. Unfortunately, you sound like the by-product of the islamization that is occurring in Egypt.

Do me a favor. Take a look at this article on Middle East Media Research Institute by a reformist, objective MUSLIM activist.

Read it carefully sara. Notice he says 15%

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=countries&Area=egypt&ID=SP102305

 
At 1:18 AM, Blogger Sara said...

egypter

i know tarek heggy very well....i met him once also ..... but do i consider tarek heggy a source of data?????

or do i consider the cia fact book a source of data????

do you know what is the CIA book....it is the american CIA ....it is non- islamic reference....

what do you think about the USA embassey here in Egypt....i guess you know well that it is 100000% against islamist and ikhwan....

what do you think about what USA embassedor opinion in your case???

i guess you can read arabic if you are really an egyptian....

http://cairo.usembassy.gov/ambassador/ar031606.htm

نص حوار السفير فرانسيس ريتشاردوني مع قناة أوربيت

go to the section when the intreviwer asked him about copts...

 
At 1:57 AM, Blogger Sara said...

Egypter

There's no sense in me trying to convince you, it sounds like there's no reasoning with you. You've got it made up in your mind that there isn't any persecution of the Christian minority by the ever increasing fundementalist majority.

fundementalists increased in both sides...Muslim and copts....

why do you call the mad man who killed the Coptic a Muslim and why do you call the Coptic who killed the Muslim the next day of the Alexandria fight...a reaction???

what did you call the fundementalist who killed many Egyptians not foreign tourists in sharm al sheikh last july???

i want to know the theory that you are using....really...
do you feel persecution because of el ikhwan????!!!!

tarek heggy the same as many thinkers and enlightened Egyptians refuse el ikhwan.....

i am with all of them...
i refuse the Muslim brother hood because they are ineffective section since it existed.....

they are playing with poor people feelings who suffered from the existed government to reach the power

Important Note....

Muslim brotherhood is not a good representatives for Islam, they are a political trend that done nothing and is doing nothing....

and my opinion on them is not my opinion about Islam ....because they are not representing Islam....

I know that they will be another version of the existing government but with another style....

and it is well known that our government is with no religion, no relegion , no relegion, no ethics, no conscience, they are nothing but dictators theieves

 
At 2:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To Egypeter
You made Sara much troubled and a lot more Hysterical than usual !
She beleives her own lies.
I used to take her seriously but no more . She never replied to a single point I put to her and been quite evasive.
Just ignore her and save us the trash vomit that she poures on this respectable blog .
Ikhristos Anesti
Alethos Anesti
Sam

 
At 11:17 AM, Blogger Egypeter said...

Hey Sam.

Thanks man. I want to wish you, FFE and everybody else reading this blog Happy Easter...and sara too.

"Kola sana wa ento tayabeen"

Sara, if you're reading this the Big Pharaoh has a post that is meant for people like you (ones that believe persectuion is a fabrication of EVERY SINGLE Copt inside and outside Egypt)

In case you missed it.

http://www.bigpharaoh.com/2006/04/22/copts-where-is-the-discrimination/

 
At 12:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sara,
I did not know what you think of the Jew yet?
are they Pigs or not

do you really believe in that?
thanks

 
At 11:00 PM, Blogger Sara said...

Anonymous..

Actually I didn't aim to ignore you because :

**but I didn't want the Coptic-Muslim case to be turned in unrelated topic like Jew, gizya and verses explanation…

**my reply will take too much length in the commenting section....i tried that before...and i see that it not a good thing to full a commenting section for a post with mainly unrelated topics

But your reply to egypter about me "if you are Sam" were impolite and very hatred which is something I normally see from people like you who is full of ignorance and hate….

any way...i replied to you in my blog ...because it is a tall reply that talks about all your questions....
here is the link...or you can simply click on my name...

http://muslimproud.blogspot.com/


the post title is :Answers for misunderstood concepts in Islam

my reply talks about:

* Al Jizya
**Are jews monkeys in Islam
***Democracy
****are christians and jews Infidels
*****Fight and war with infidels
******what islam do i follow
*******comment on the statues issue

 

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